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The Green Movement

Lets go GREEN!! We all could use a bit more green in our lives, no? We can talk about these ideas here.

Members: 229
Latest Activity: Sep 9, 2015

Discussion Forum

Glass media for sand filters 4 Replies

Started by Justin Gregoli. Last reply by Jeff Brown Dec 29, 2013.

When i started this group i asked "GREEN,GREEN or GREEN"? 2 Replies

Started by Justin Gregoli. Last reply by Justin Gregoli May 7, 2013.

Here comes summer!!! Lets start up our discussions. 5 Replies

Started by Justin Gregoli. Last reply by John Mar 21, 2013.

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Comment by Justin Gregoli on May 6, 2013 at 5:49pm

Where are all our Green members? We have 227 members, by far the largest group, and no one is posting. Come on Green folks! lets make this a destination for information and discussion.There are no wrong starting points so start a post, ask a question, give an opinion just get involved and help us all.

Comment by John on April 24, 2013 at 11:03pm

Justin I am still trying to get out of the starting blocks with the Pentair backwash valve as that is key to my developments and just as infurating as Richard said below about Maytronics restricting supply of their product to Europe As Pentair US or Europe won't help with no plans to ship to Europe with the backwash valve. (I understand you don't care Rick as it may not be what you'd hope for)  Richard one of the Hot tub manufacturers was using the same tech I seem to remeber us discussing this a while back?

Comment by Justin Gregoli on April 24, 2013 at 8:56pm

Hey GREEN folks!

What are you doing this season that's greener than last year?

-Installing or recommending greener products?

-Using more economical vehicles?

-Promoting greener chemical alternatives?

-Going solar?

-Water reclamation?

What is it that peaks your interest this year?


My personal focus this year is teaching the customer "baby steps" by showing them how they can save money and the planet by doing little things. How a small investment now will pay off in the near term and then go to the next level. We have the technology to make our vessels "off the grid" as well as fully self sufficient. It's not neccessarly cheap or a "one stop shop" style product due to the fact that no single company or distributer carries everything but it is doable and even at current costs the customer will see a positive financial return as well as doing there part to reduce the carbon footprint.

That's my goal....... "baby steps".

How about you?

Comment by Ron See on July 10, 2012 at 3:08pm

Hello everyone!

  I hope you all are having a great summer so far!

 I just wanted to remind you that you can grab your kids, yourself, your pets, and your neighbor a green or eco-style pool float at

The one pool float on the planet that only works if you recycle!

We also now have available the new smaller version. ( Recyclers Raft swim aid )

Not only are these an extremely heavy duty pool float, but the new BLACK color also doubles as a passive solar water heater for the campsite or anywhere!


Comment by Scott Tarr on December 23, 2010 at 7:56pm

Here is an interesting article from Pool & Spa Living entitled, "Make it Greener"

Comment by Richard A. Falk on December 3, 2010 at 1:32pm
Adamant responded back and told me the same thing Wes wrote which is that the worldwide distribution of Oxineo is through Maytronics. Then, someone from Maytronics responded saying that they have decided to restrict sales to Europe for 2010-2011 but plan to market the system in the U.S. in 2012 (as Frank wrote).

I had asked them about what regulatory approvals they were planning to get and they said that they weren't getting any since none were required for private pools. So I've written back to them about various approvals including NSF Standard 50 and how for copper/silver and copper ion generators that 0.4 ppm chlorine or 0.8 ppm bromine are required while for in-line electrolytic chlorinator process equipment the chlorine produced is presumed to pass EPA DIS/TSS-12 if appropriate Free Chlorine (FC) levels are maintained (usually min. 1 ppm FC). I told them that the implied claims on their website showing hydroxyl radicals going into the bulk pool water and their claim of "continuous residual disinfection protection" would likely not be allowed (without testing) by FIFRA rules since such claims would likely require pesticide registration and passing EPA DIS/TSS-12 to use words like "disinfectant", "sanitizer", "bactericide", "kills bacteria", etc. The U.S., Canada and Australia all have strict rules about making such claims for swimming pool and spa disinfectants. Apparently, Europe is looser in this area.
Comment by Rick Chafey on December 2, 2010 at 9:55pm
Richard, thank you for literally cutting through the crap. For the benefit of all we must pursue new technology, but unfortunately it seems a majority of the wiz bang products manufacturers completely overstate or outrightly lie about the actual benefits of their products. More specifically they overstate the amount of benefit for a given body of water, and for most pools are so inadequate they could be compared to using a squirt gun to put out a forest fire. We as an industry need a better means of certifying/approving products and weeding out the junk. There are 100's of thousands of ozone generators installed on pools across the country that produce so little Ozone, and even worse are not installed in a fashion to provide enough contact time even if they produce enough ozone to provide any reasonable benefit, yet consumers were talked into spending 100's if not 1000's of dollars on them. Result..... We are failing our consumers.
Comment by Wes Burdine on December 2, 2010 at 3:02pm
"The Oxineo® technology in the Maytronics product might be able to be purchased directly from Adamant Technologies who actually makes the core technology found in the Maytronics products."

I tried Adamant. They are exclusive with Maytronics.
Comment by Richard A. Falk on December 2, 2010 at 1:30pm
I contacted Adamant directly so will let you know what they say as well.

I should clarify that the Oxineo product is just electrolysis and is really not fundamentally much different than what you describe (at least the electrolysis part) or other similar products. ALL electrolysis products produce a variety of disinfectant and oxidizing species including oxygen radicals, ozone and hydroxyl radicals, chlorine, percarbonate or persulfate, hydroperoxide, and the electric field itself (see this paper, for example) though the quantities of these are very small (except for chlorine if chloride levels are high). The nearly complete killing of bacteria in 15 minutes described in the paper is on a small volume of water -- it would take nearly 3 years in a 10,000 gallon pool -- even for an 8-hour kill time it would take 16 square feet of plate surface area and 3.4 kilowatts of power. Nevertheless, some manufacturers refer to papers such as this to "prove" their point and unfortunately most people don't go the extra step to see that the claims are very misleading. I'm not saying that Oxineo is like this -- it's probably better -- but it's certainly not a panacea. The water still flows through the chamber very quickly so only a relatively small fraction is killed quickly and it takes multiple passes.

The difference with the boron-doped diamond, such as in Oxineo, is that it tends to promote a far greater generation of hydroxyl radicals, though oxygen is still the primary generated product (see this paper and this paper among many others).

However, unless the chloride level is high in which case a lot of chlorine is produced (and is essentially a saltwater chlorine generator), there is not a sufficient residual disinfectant in the water to prevent person-to-person transmission nor to kill pathogens stuck on pool surfaces that won't get circulated.

Unfortunately, a lot of manufacturers/resellers try to jump on the Green movement by trying to eliminate chlorine, but none of these systems provide residual disinfection of the bulk pool water unless they have one of the three EPA-approved disinfectants: chlorine, bromine, Baquacil/biguanide/PHMB. In Australia, they have also approved hydrogen peroxide (see the end of this link though this isn't practical in most pools; it's more common in spas). The EPA has also approved Nature2 with non-chlorine shock (MPS) for use in spas because the silver ion in Nature2 combined with the MPS at hot spa temperatures kills pathogens quickly.

Copper ions are fine for preventing algae growth, ignoring the side effects one must control of metal staining and tinting of blond hair, but will not kill or even control fecal bacteria or blood-borne bacteria. The reason is that such bacteria live in the G.I. tract or survive in blood serum and there is 0.7 to 1.5 ppm copper ion in blood already so having it in pool water does absolutely nothing for most pathogenic bacteria (copper ion is good against Legionella, however -- see this post for more details). In fact, I'm currently getting the EPA to review PristineBlue and Rain Forest Blue (both are copper sulfate pentahydrate products) that both claim "bactericide" when they really aren't (something that slipped through the EPA labeling review process).

The reality is that the risk of getting a disease in a residential pool is far lower because you don't have the situation where one person can infect dozens or hundreds of others as can happen in commercial or public pools. So there is a market for "all natural" systems of all types, but to claim that it's as sanitary as a chlorinated pool is simply false. The risk may be low, but its still far higher than in a chlorinated pool. And yes, chlorine has disinfection by-products, but their amount is in rough proportion to bather load so in residential pools this is far far less of an issue than in commercial/public pools (especially indoor pools).

You can also read this thread specifically about EClear.
Comment by Frank May on December 2, 2010 at 12:42pm
Great input Richard. Thank you. I have also been studying a product called EClear with combines UV, a Sacrificial copper anode, and a radical oxygen process through electrolysis. The claim is that water is split into O1, O2, OH, and H202, three of which are radical oxygen molecules and one of which is absorbed as oxygen into the water. The product is of interest, however, it is very costly and comes with little potential margin for the reseller so it is not ready for prime time. I spoke with Maytronics at length, and their head of the US company said the Oxineo was priced out of the market but with some modifications should be ready for the US by 2012.

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