Thanks very much for your time and advice, I really appreciate it.
Ground water issues?, blow in a dedicated ground water sump along with a hydro in the unblockable?
We don’t have any of those pesky water in the ground problems here in Las Vegas.
I understand what you are saying about the gaps between the frame and the pool floor. That is one of the main reasons I have decided to only install new frames & sumps and not do any more “retro” covers. Inevitably one of the covers will not sit flush and I am also not comfortable installing an aftermarket cover on an old frame.
Another reason is frame & cover compatibility,
Did you see this “Product and Safety Liability Notice” from Hayward?
The Act requires “…each public pool and spa in the United States shall be equipped with anti-entrapment devices or systems that comply with the ASME/ANSI A112.19.8 performance standard, or any successor standard…”. ASME A112.19.8 – 2007 and the A112.19.8a – 2008 addenda defines Suction Fittings (drains and other suction outlets) as “…all components, including the sump and/or body, cover/grate, and hardware.” Thus, drain covers and frames or drain covers and sumps must be tested in combination to determine compliance with that standard. Indeed, the ASME standard specifically provides that “cover/grate assemblies that…do not connect directly to the circulation piping must have either the manufacturer’s recommended sump below or behind the outlet cover/grate, or a field sump of the design specified by the manufacturer to control flow through the open area of the cover/grate.” Simply stated, installation of anything other than the recommended Hayward drain cover on a Hayward frame or Hayward sump is not ASME A112.19.8-2007 or ASME A112.19.8a - 2008 compliant. Likewise, the installation of a Hayward drain cover on a non-Hayward frame or sump is not compliant.
We have been advised that some pool builders, installers and servicers are attaching non-Hayward drain covers to Hayward frames and/or sumps. Such a practice is dangerous as it creates a potential hazard to the pool or spa patron and should be discontinued. There are non-Hayward covers presently in distribution that have been tested in combination with Hayward frames and/or sumps. This testing and evaluation reveals that such a combination presents potential entrapment dangers due to misfit and/or inferior, non-compliant fastening systems. A properly secured cover as defined in 2.1.1-6 of the ASME standard is imperative to a compliant suction fitting. In addition, test results of non-Hayward covers and frames presently in distribution conclude that these products are inferior to the entrapment prevention features of Hayward covers and frames or Hayward covers and sumps.
Please do not hesitate to contact me if I can ever be of assistance,
Thanks again,
Mike, er, Westside.
You mentioned before that you had installed 200 32CDFL’s.
Up until now I have referred drain modifications to local plaster companies or installed aftermarket “retro” covers. Neither of these options have panned out. The plaster companies inevitably get it wrong (if you want it done right…) and I have no confidence in the aftermarket products.
I have done some sump modifications, installing a 3” sump where no sump had gone before, but I have not done an unblockable or an 8” to 10” conversion.
Anyway, my question to you is to ask for any “pro-tips” you may have picked up in 200 installations, the best type of plaster, tools, support suggestions, do you use field fabricated or manufactured sumps, etc…
Hey Brody...
Sorry to hear about your meeting w/ DOH, I feel your pain.
Here in Nevada SNHD is permitting the use of the Aquastar 32 CDFL, I service a couple of pools that have recently had them installed and so far I think they are excellent.
As far as sump depths, it is 1.5X Dia IF the manufacturer has not specified sump requirements in their "Installation Instructions". For instance all Aquastar covers need 3" sumps regardless of pipe dia, the Paramount SDX only requires a one inch sump and is 1.5 fps @ 200 GPM...
Also, I was told yesterday that in the event of TWO pipes under one cover you would only need to use the dia of the largest pipe to get your sump depth, not add them together.
Anyway, that's what it was yesterday, probably changed twice since then.
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Comments
Thanks very much for your time and advice, I really appreciate it.
Ground water issues?, blow in a dedicated ground water sump along with a hydro in the unblockable?
We don’t have any of those pesky water in the ground problems here in Las Vegas.
I understand what you are saying about the gaps between the frame and the pool floor. That is one of the main reasons I have decided to only install new frames & sumps and not do any more “retro” covers. Inevitably one of the covers will not sit flush and I am also not comfortable installing an aftermarket cover on an old frame.
Another reason is frame & cover compatibility,
Did you see this “Product and Safety Liability Notice” from Hayward?
The Act requires “…each public pool and spa in the United States shall be equipped with anti-entrapment devices or systems that comply with the ASME/ANSI A112.19.8 performance standard, or any successor standard…”. ASME A112.19.8 – 2007 and the A112.19.8a – 2008 addenda defines Suction Fittings (drains and other suction outlets) as “…all components, including the sump and/or body, cover/grate, and hardware.” Thus, drain covers and frames or drain covers and sumps must be tested in combination to determine compliance with that standard. Indeed, the ASME standard specifically provides that “cover/grate assemblies that…do not connect directly to the circulation piping must have either the manufacturer’s recommended sump below or behind the outlet cover/grate, or a field sump of the design specified by the manufacturer to control flow through the open area of the cover/grate.” Simply stated, installation of anything other than the recommended Hayward drain cover on a Hayward frame or Hayward sump is not ASME A112.19.8-2007 or ASME A112.19.8a - 2008 compliant. Likewise, the installation of a Hayward drain cover on a non-Hayward frame or sump is not compliant.
We have been advised that some pool builders, installers and servicers are attaching non-Hayward drain covers to Hayward frames and/or sumps. Such a practice is dangerous as it creates a potential hazard to the pool or spa patron and should be discontinued. There are non-Hayward covers presently in distribution that have been tested in combination with Hayward frames and/or sumps. This testing and evaluation reveals that such a combination presents potential entrapment dangers due to misfit and/or inferior, non-compliant fastening systems. A properly secured cover as defined in 2.1.1-6 of the ASME standard is imperative to a compliant suction fitting. In addition, test results of non-Hayward covers and frames presently in distribution conclude that these products are inferior to the entrapment prevention features of Hayward covers and frames or Hayward covers and sumps.
Please do not hesitate to contact me if I can ever be of assistance,
Thanks again,
Mike, er, Westside.
You mentioned before that you had installed 200 32CDFL’s.
Up until now I have referred drain modifications to local plaster companies or installed aftermarket “retro” covers. Neither of these options have panned out. The plaster companies inevitably get it wrong (if you want it done right…) and I have no confidence in the aftermarket products.
I have done some sump modifications, installing a 3” sump where no sump had gone before, but I have not done an unblockable or an 8” to 10” conversion.
Anyway, my question to you is to ask for any “pro-tips” you may have picked up in 200 installations, the best type of plaster, tools, support suggestions, do you use field fabricated or manufactured sumps, etc…
Thanks in advance..
Sorry to hear about your meeting w/ DOH, I feel your pain.
Here in Nevada SNHD is permitting the use of the Aquastar 32 CDFL, I service a couple of pools that have recently had them installed and so far I think they are excellent.
As far as sump depths, it is 1.5X Dia IF the manufacturer has not specified sump requirements in their "Installation Instructions". For instance all Aquastar covers need 3" sumps regardless of pipe dia, the Paramount SDX only requires a one inch sump and is 1.5 fps @ 200 GPM...
Also, I was told yesterday that in the event of TWO pipes under one cover you would only need to use the dia of the largest pipe to get your sump depth, not add them together.
Anyway, that's what it was yesterday, probably changed twice since then.
Come join the
“GREEN MOVEMENT”
Group
Help make it the most popular Group.
Help each other
Go to the top of the page,
hit the Interact tab then the Group sub tag
scroll down and find the Green Movement group,
click on the picture,
in the upper right click “Join Group”
You are now a proud member of the
Green Movement Group
Make comments!
Start a discussion!
Get involved!
Let's make this industry a better place for everyone!!
Thanks,
Justin Gregoli