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Problem with the bigger (400 gpm) systems is the make up water. You'll never have enough water to handle that deficit, which is what retards our ability to build bigger systems. By putting the system in line and controlling the TDS levels before they get too high, you can use a smaller system, since the water will always be maintained between set parameters.
We can build (and have, via our RO guy) 1,000,000 gpd units, but not for swimming pools. These systems are designed for water filtration of lakes/streams/rivers where there is limited or no drinking water. Our constraint is not the ability to build a large scale unit, but rather how to balance the brine water with the make up water. While turn around time is always a concern, the ability to do our process without closing a pool has handled that concern easily for us!
Looking forward to talking to you tomorrow!
thanks for the reply...In our neck of the woods - Pools are $$$... the quicker the turnaround time, the better - My initial design was for a system that can handle 400gpm system flow, and use that for large pools only - I was going to come to a smaller unit later... @400GPM - 100gpm was going to waste - Thats where you run into issues with the water depts.
We are introducing the inline approach, only on spas - and its automated too - we base the system operation on a tds meter - the system maintains 800 - 1500ppm TDS range - the operator is responsible for maintaining balance.
For big pools - that would require a whole new room - a 400GPM unit is BIG...
Ill give you a call tomorrow.
I'll be pulling onto a 350,000 gallon pool project next week. The rig will run for about a week and we will never expose the plaster nor shut the pool down. Our rig will do 40,000 gallons a day, so we are limited to how fast we can go, but we have not had to turn anyone down yet or had anyone complain about the time to purify. We've discussed building the next rig around 65,000 gpd.
The average pool around here (San Diego) is 20,000 gallons, so we treat them in about 8-10 hours, depending on where we start with water chemistry. One of the challenges in a bigger system is how to handle the make up water that is needed to be introduced to the system. The brine solution obviously needs to be made up, and available water from a hose bibb is usually around 5-7 gpm (around here), so I can only move so fast.
We initially had some concerns with the brine solution, but we spoke to the water districts and they said it was no problem to handle the small amount of water (around 6 gpm) we were providing. They all seemed to think we were dumping 100 gpm! Our water is chemical free but is salty. That aside, we are working on a way to address the brine solution and get closer to 100% recovery.
Siemens is obviously a great company, but that doesn't mean they are looking at or have the correct membranes! We've been down that road, and once we identified the correct membranes we went forward. We have pumped five million gallons through our system without cleaning the membranes yet! Our delta pressure has only changed 2 psi through this. We have removed and looked at the membranes (an anti-scalant injector pump ahead of the membranes is also critical), and they are clean as a whistle!
Don't forget that you could put these in line on larger pools also. Our system is completely automated (we control it with our iPhones) and it can pretty easily be automated on larger projects as well. Don't constrict your thoughts or think anything can't be done :)
I've got a pretty busy day today, but you can try and catch me (760.535.8411 is my cell). If you call and leave a message I'll do my best to get back to you today yet, but I may not be able to return the call until tomorrow. Either way, I'm happy to talk and try to help!
Bruce - Please contact me - That setup is Slick, but its for small applications...
Where I am - pools need to be drained 6 times per year (commercial) BY LAW....
You can imagine where I am going with this...
The issue is - That small system is too small for lets say a 300,000 gallon and up pool...
The system I was designing was MUCH bigger.
By the way - My friends are from Seimens...
The system I see in the video seems to have chlorine removal covered, but I see no Water Softening...I cant see how those membranes are survivng...Also - I dont see where the waste water is going - and I was told that that would be an other issue - The Waste water cant be dumped into the sewer - as it is super saturated, and can cause more harm than good. In NY - that waste water is considered a special waste, which means that it has to be disposed of differently.
These are the challenges that I saw that I would face in a Commercial setting. where to dump thew waste from pools as small as 40,000, to over a million gallons.
Thanks for the video...
The reason I said I owned it was because I held the utility patent for the idea... ;)
Here's another quick video from the US Green Chamber. They were out to do this for us a couple of months ago, after hearing what we are doing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbbAnIKcIRs&list=UUKxkgMlkih2m6y...
Lots of people seem to think RO is their idea, Clemente, but it is nothing new! The concept of utilizing it to clean pool water may be a bit unique, but the technology is tried and true and has been around for many decades. We did not invent it, nor is it our idea. We did make it work in swimming pool water treatment though!
You are correct in that RO does not like pool water, mostly because of chlorine (it also does not like metal). However, you are incorrect in how to process it or the size of the system that it takes to do this. We've been doing it for almost three years now and have yet to turn down a pool for high FC or CH.
Your three buddies just need to think it through a little better. Perhaps they have the wrong membranes as well (the correct membranes are critical!). I'm not bagging on your buddies, but I am aware of the challenges to make this work. Many have tried, or are still trying, and have not got it right. We are very fortunate to have the right RO guy who understands this and was able to build our system (it took me 6 tries to get him to agree to do it, as he did not want to try and figure it out initially either!).
I've posted our YouTube video before, but I will post it again for you here. In it you can see that our trailer is not very big (it is 20', which allows us plenty of room to work in it. We could do this in a much smaller trailer if we did not want ample working room.). Here's the link to the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_pC3bUGpJo
I hope this helps. Don't quit trying to make this work, because it can be done, and done well!
Gentleman...
Im so happy to see that MY CONCEPT has made it to you guys...
I have some bad news for you...
RO does not like Pool Water - a Mobile unit would have to fit in a Tractor Trailer, since you would need to remove the chlorine, then the Calcium from the water, before you can run the water through RO...
Spoke to My buddies at three large RO companies who jumped at the opportunity to work with me on it.
There is still hope, folks...
RO for Spa Dumping is the way to go...ASK me how...
Thanks for providing the info, Bruce! You saw this way before me!
I sent you a PM, Jason. Please let me know what questions you have and I will do my best to get them all answered. Thank you for your interest in this technology!
-Bruce
For all your RO answers contact Bruce Wettstein at poolservicetech.com
He is a regular on this forum
Bruce R Roache
poolrepairdiver.com