Forum

multi-speed vs. two-speed

Posted by Clint Combs on January 14, 2009 at 3:31pm in Energy Efficiency
Which is better for the average pool owner that has a pool with attached spa, a multi-speed pump like the Intelliflo or a two-speed pump with compatible two-speed capable timer or relay?Personally, I believe there is no clear answer to this question, which is why it could generate some interesting discussion.Some relevant factors to think about:1) To what degree has the customer bought into the idea of green technology?2) How tech savy is the customer?3) How many speeds are really necessary?4) How long will it take to recup the extra cost for Intelliflo (compared to a two-speed)?5) Is the alarm feature on the Intelliflo a useful feature or an annoyance?6) Can you imagine a better multi-speed pump than any on the market? What would make it better?

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Tags: intelliflo, efficiency, energy, green, technology
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  • Aaron Heiss June 13, 2012 at 10:14pm

    At my facility we had 3 challenger pumps (3 hp), one on our 18,000 gal therapy pool, and 2 on our 1,500 hot tub, with one running the filter & heat exchanger, and the other running the air jets.

    Under our previous maintenance director, we were replacing them all the time (not his fault - the contractor who plumbed them in had elbows directly into and out of the pumps).

    We have since replaced 2 of the 3 with the intelliflo pumps, and they cost us about $900 apiece, roughly the same as what was quoted us to go with the challengers. When installing them, we corrected the plumbing to meet the requirements in the manual. Going from 3450 rpm to 3110 rpm in our 18000 gallon pool brought us from 3,000W to about 2,000W 24/7 for an identical flow rate, using the pump speed as the throttle instead of the valve immediately thereafter.

    Our second replacement was the whirlpool jet pump, and we went from 3,000W at 3450 RPM to 1,000W at 2350 RPM, with the same flowrate as the old challenger pump. At night it runs at 750 RPM (we have no timer - it would've cost us almost $3,000 for the local electrician - new pump was 1/3 the cost!), at about 100W. We figured running it slow overnight at 100W would help keep things from growing in the pipes vs. stopping flow altogether.

    All in all, we are so far very happy with the intelliflo pumps.

    • Clint Combs > Aaron Heiss June 14, 2012 at 8:25am

      Aaron, 

      That sounds like a great testimonial for VS pumps. 

  • David Talbot March 18, 2012 at 3:59pm

    I prefer the variable speed to the two speed. The main reason is that the low speed on a two speed is two slow for many applications and the high speed is always 3450RPMs. With the variable speed you can customize all speeds to what you want and need. On some of my simple variable speed installations there are only 2 speeds programed but they are the speeds that work best for the particular job. For example I have one on an old pool that runs at 1700 RPMs most of the time for circulation and ramps up to 2800 RPMs for 3 hours each day to run the suction side pool vac. This pool has no spa, no solar, and no heater. The client saves over $100.00 per month compared with the single speed 1  1/2 Hp that used to power the pool.

  • Richard A. Falk July 6, 2010 at 10:55am
    Luke Norris said:
    How much flow does that cleaner need?

    Poolvergnugen's "Pool Cleaner"
    I have an IntelliFlo VF with The Pool Cleaner. The Pool Cleaner needs very little flow -- I have my VF set at the minimum of 15 GPM and this is enough for The Pool Cleaner to operate. It could probably even operate at around 12 GPM but the pump won't go that low (when setting flow rates). I have the 4-wheel pressure-side Pool Cleaner on a dedicated line (1.5" pipe for that line). At 15 GPM there is no water flowing from the relief valve at the outlet, but any higher flow rate results in the relief valve opening.

    I used to have a 1 HP (1.65 SF) Jandy HHP main pump and a 3/4-HP booster pump for a Letro Legend pressure-side pool cleaner and my annual electricity costs were around $1600 per year. I replaced both pumps with the IntelliFlo VF and added a switch/valve to force all flow to the dedicated line when The Pool Cleaner runs at night. My electricity costs dropped in half to around $800 per year with this new setup. It would have dropped more (perhaps 80%) if I did not have solar. With the solar on, I have a flow rate of 4 GPM per panel for 12 panels so 48 GPM as recommended by the manufacturer (Fafco) while with the solar off I use 26 GPM since there isn't any significant net savings at slower flow rates since the gain in lower Wattage is offset by the longer runtime needed to achieve the same turnover rate (basically, everything from 15 to 26 GPM is about the same total cost, but costs start to climb above 26 GPM for my system). My savings comes from running the solar on at 48 GPM compared to around 55 GPM with the previous pump and it comes from the solar off at 26 GPM compared to around 75 GPM with the previous pump.

    Electricity rates in California (I live in the San Francisco bay area) are very high and my marginal rate is now around 42 cents per kilowatt-hour (it was around 36 cents when I got the IntelliFlo). So for me, the IntelliFlo has been a great savings. With the solar on, my pump runs at around 1500 Watts while with the solar off it runs at around 275 Watts. The solar is usually on for around 5 of the 8 hours that I run my pump though this varies depending on time of year. With the pool sweep on, the pump runs at 540 Watts and is on every night for 2 hours. My old main pump was around 1800 Watts whenever it was on and the booster pump was around 1400 Watts 3 hours/day 4 days/week.
  • Clint Combs May 5, 2010 at 7:39pm
    I like to set up suction cleaners with a spring operated flow regulator. This way, when the pump is running on high, the spring opens and lets water from the skimmer in. This also prevents cavitation in that you will not be trying to pull too much water through the cleaner.

    On low speed, the spring closes the flap and the cleaner may still move slowly. Poolvergnugen seems to work at lower flow than Barracuda and Kreepy.

    As far as GPM, trial and error is you best bet. Adjust your speed until you cleaner moves at a moderate pace, then set the pump to operate at that speed for about 1-2 hours a day.
  • Jeremy Hine May 4, 2010 at 3:31am
    Here in Gainesville, FL, the local utility not only offers $450 rebate on having the Variable Flo pump installed, but they require that it be OFF during peak hours of 4pm EST- 700pm EST. So I program fitler cylce(s) start and stop times and features accordingly. We generally dont need 21 hours to turn over pools here at 20 gallons a minute. Most flow switches and pressure switches in the salt systems or heater pumps arent satisfied unless your flowing at least 22 +- 1-3 gpms.So the minimum on many pools here hangs around 21 gpm. Simple pool, w/ floater or liquid chlorine we can get away w/ 15 GPMS and a few scheduled features @ 25-28 GPMs to get a good skimming action. We can end up with 128watts.

    -Jeremy
    Florida Leisure Pool & Spa
    www.FLLeisure.com

    Luke Norris said:
    I just saw in my area that the peak electric rates are 2pm to 7pm. Can you not run the intelliflo during those times and still have a algae free pool? I mean that is at peak sunlight! That is only 5 hours I know.

    Clint Combs said:
    Just saw your post, sorry for the delay. I generally buy my motors at Superior Pool Products.

    Luke Norris said:
    not sure where you live Clint. But where do you buy two speed motors at a decent price? I live in Atlanta. Some people stock them, but at a high premium. If you recommend where you get yours. I can see about setting a account up there and having them shipped to me. Thanks!

    Clint Combs said:
    AO Smith / Century has come out with a new pump that is energy-efficient on both high and low speed. This helps to close the efficiency gap between the two-speed pumps we all know (energy efficient on high and induction motor on low) and permanent magnet motors like used with the Intelliflo and Jandy's new ePump. Century calls their motor the "E Plus New Centurion." I installed one last week and shot a youtube video of it. The video includes volt and amp readings and power and cost calculations. Check it out. It looks like a promising motor that I will be promoting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcNWUfH2Bso
  • Clint Combs May 3, 2010 at 9:55pm
    It is probably best to run the pump during the afternoon. This is even more essential if you are using a salt chlorinator, inline chlorinator, or ozonator as these only work when the pump runs. The advantage of multispeed is that during these peak times, run the pump on a low speed. At half speed a pump draws about an 1/8 the power as it does on high. At a 1/3 speed (only achievable with variable speed pumps) the pump uses 1/27th the power.

    Now, if you are trying to heat the pool with solar, you will have to run the pump on high during the afternoon.

    Luke Norris said:
    I just saw in my area that the peak electric rates are 2pm to 7pm. Can you not run the intelliflo during those times and still have a algae free pool? I mean that is at peak sunlight! That is only 5 hours I know. But I am guessing the cost saving would really add up since you are paying about triple to run during that time! Any thoughts?

  • Clint Combs November 10, 2009 at 10:18pm
    Just saw your post, sorry for the delay. I generally buy my motors at Superior Pool Products.

    Luke Norris said:
    not sure where you live Clint. But where do you buy two speed motors at a decent price? I live in Atlanta. Some people stock them, but at a high premium. If you recommend where you get yours. I can see about setting a account up there and having them shipped to me. Thanks!

    Clint Combs said:
    AO Smith / Century has come out with a new pump that is energy-efficient on both high and low speed. This helps to close the efficiency gap between the two-speed pumps we all know (energy efficient on high and induction motor on low) and permanent magnet motors like used with the Intelliflo and Jandy's new ePump. Century calls their motor the "E Plus New Centurion." I installed one last week and shot a youtube video of it. The video includes volt and amp readings and power and cost calculations. Check it out. It looks like a promising motor that I will be promoting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcNWUfH2Bso
  • David Penton July 28, 2009 at 6:43am
    19gpm is actually 27,360 gallons per day, which would circulate most backyard pools in America, and even at 350w (which we got recently on a 1 1/2" copper system with the suction line 90' long) you are using 8,400 watts in a day, as opposed to about 2,000/hr. with a 1 1/2 hp pump. After 4 hrs you are money ahead...

    We pay CRAZY rates for ele. in SoCal. I have some clients that pay $.60+ /kWhr ! So at those rates our ROI is much lower.

    I will concede on "issue" with very low speed pumps is that since they take so long to turn over the water, they can take a while to clear up the water after very heavy use. I have trained the clients to put the pump in one of the pre programmed high speed modes for a few hours after a large party, to help clear the water more quickly.

    Rick Larson said:
    I see all these points but again, 19gpm? Thats only 456 gallons a day. The velocity would not mix the water near as good as as the powerful flow from a 1.5hp pump. And a 1.5hp pump at well over 100gpm would only need to run 4-5 minutes a day if simple turnover was all that mattered.

    Point is that way more attention to design needs to be paid and simply replacing an expensive Intelliflow into a single speed pump installation is not always a good thing.

    And I am cooking dinner!
  • Rick Larson July 26, 2009 at 9:27am
    LOL Thanks. I didn't burn anything either!
This reply was deleted.

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