Forum

Replies

• 

  Brian McGarry, CBP May 3, 2009 at 3:01am

  When my clients are invited to take the journey to determine which pool is right for them, we sell about 5% rectangle.
  
  Rick Hughes said:

  Mark, I find that a lot of people either say that they want a plain rectangular pool (because they think that it is simpler or cheaper to build), or else they will say that they just want a kidney shaped pool .........once I get into discussing the different styles and show a lot of pictures, etc., I very seldom wind up selling either shape.........either we wind up with something like a Grecian or "Roman style or a more interesting free form pool
• 

  Rick Hughes May 2, 2009 at 2:13pm

  Mark, I find that a lot of people either say that they want a plain rectangular pool (because they think that it is simpler or cheaper to build), or else they will say that they just want a kidney shaped pool .........once I get into discussing the different styles and show a lot of pictures, etc., I very seldom wind up selling either shape.........either we wind up with something like a Grecian or "Roman style or a more interesting free form pool
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  Mark April 30, 2009 at 12:29pm

  We find especially for outdoor, that most people just want a rectangular pool.
  We have tried to introduce some new designs, but they seem happy.
  I suppose it alot of money to risk that you dont like it.
• 

  Ken Oliphant April 30, 2009 at 10:11am

  Thanks Karen,
  
  I made a mistake (first one this year!?!) and meant "Pool Studio" not "Pool Draw". However, I'll take you up on that invite to check out "Pool Draw". I don't know if any seminars for any of the available "Pool Programs" are available at any of the many distributor/ guild conventions throughout the year. Maybe this website will post info to that effect.
• 

  PoolDraw April 29, 2009 at 12:23pm

  I encourage you to log on with Don for the online demo/instruction - I will resend the link. PoolDraw does not have an interactive demo (as Microsoft partners we include Visio with our installation) so that might be Splash that you have worked with in the past. Believe me;any auto-cad user can master PoolDraw; it's just a case of becoming familiar with the process and tools. Check out my profile page for some positive endorsements. Look forward to seeing you online - Karen
  
  Ken Oliphant said:

  Glad to see some reaction from the pool sales people. Long over due.
  
  1) Diving pool design and contract language are separate issues and could be discuused on their own merits and short comings. Most everyone intends on building a solid and safe pool.
  
  2) Measuring the yard is first and foremost. If it requires more than 10 minutes, like for elevations, plant locations, existing obstructions and the like, I'll return another time. Most of my appointments are after work and it is a real rush to get all the information, while there's light, on the first visit. Usually, enlisting the homeowner to hold one end of the tape as we locate the center and length of the pool gets things started. Discussion at the kitchen table while I draw a scaled yard plan offers up a punchlist to be followed later at the office. As we talk about pool activities, step placement, equipment location, particular views and traffic patterns the pool takes shape to meet the client's needs, not what I think later on back at the office.
  
  3) I will use one or a combination of presentations based on time and priority of each particular project. Either a down and dirty single line CAD application, additional marker and colored pencil plans complete with plants, grass or other L/S features for the nicer clients, to a fullblown 3D "virtual snapshot" complete with swimmers, bathers and little kids enjoying the pool. I've coined the phrase: "Look at all your new friends!" for comic relief.
  
  4) Which program to use? I'm impressed with the arcade graphics of "Pool Draw". I've struggled with the demo CD and haven't gone through the phone/internet tutorials as of yet. Google "Sketch Up" is free, but similar teach yourself format. Local Communty College has terrific AutoCad curriculum, including 3D. Turns out most Architects and Engineers use Auto Cad, too. A real PLUS!! So, my venue vote goes to..AutoCad. Structured class instruction and ability to share actual digital plans, instead of hard copies, saves time, increases accuracy, drops into working drawing title blocks, not to mention "take off" tools, and allows for quicker revision turnaround.
  
  5) Charge for drawings and estimates? Good %#@*^! Luck!! 30 years of secondguessing clients' intentions only muddy an already difficult situation. Putting drawings on line won't protect your plans, I'm afraid. Ever heard of: Ctrl/Print Screen ? There are too many pool companies that don't charge for an estimate, UNLESS........
  
  6) A formal "UNION" of Pool Salespeople that , collectively, determine their own working conditions. Most are commission only, so charging for the estimate would at least generate some income. Backcharges??? Not in my dream!! And that is all it is....a dream.
  
  
  In closing, stay positive, the odds are with you!! 8 leads, 2 sales. Half don't buy a pool at all and half of the ones that do, buy it from you. If you can do better than that my hat's off to you.
• 

  Ken Oliphant April 29, 2009 at 11:50am

  Glad to see some reaction from the pool sales people. Long over due.
  
  1) Diving pool design and contract language are separate issues and could be discuused on their own merits and short comings. Most everyone intends on building a solid and safe pool.
  
  2) Measuring the yard is first and foremost. If it requires more than 10 minutes, like for elevations, plant locations, existing obstructions and the like, I'll return another time. Most of my appointments are after work and it is a real rush to get all the information, while there's light, on the first visit. Usually, enlisting the homeowner to hold one end of the tape as we locate the center and length of the pool gets things started. Discussion at the kitchen table while I draw a scaled yard plan offers up a punchlist to be followed later at the office. As we talk about pool activities, step placement, equipment location, particular views and traffic patterns the pool takes shape to meet the client's needs, not what I think later on back at the office.
  
  3) I will use one or a combination of presentations based on time and priority of each particular project. Either a down and dirty single line CAD application, additional marker and colored pencil plans complete with plants, grass or other L/S features for the nicer clients, to a fullblown 3D "virtual snapshot" complete with swimmers, bathers and little kids enjoying the pool. I've coined the phrase: "Look at all your new friends!" for comic relief.
  
  4) Which program to use? I'm impressed with the arcade graphics of "Pool Draw". I've struggled with the demo CD and haven't gone through the phone/internet tutorials as of yet. Google "Sketch Up" is free, but similar teach yourself format. Local Communty College has terrific AutoCad curriculum, including 3D. Turns out most Architects and Engineers use Auto Cad, too. A real PLUS!! So, my venue vote goes to..AutoCad. Structured class instruction and ability to share actual digital plans, instead of hard copies, saves time, increases accuracy, drops into working drawing title blocks, not to mention "take off" tools, and allows for quicker revision turnaround.
  
  5) Charge for drawings and estimates? Good %#@*^! Luck!! 30 years of secondguessing clients' intentions only muddy an already difficult situation. Putting drawings on line won't protect your plans, I'm afraid. Ever heard of: Ctrl/Print Screen ? There are too many pool companies that don't charge for an estimate, UNLESS........
  
  6) A formal "UNION" of Pool Salespeople that , collectively, determine their own working conditions. Most are commission only, so charging for the estimate would at least generate some income. Backcharges??? Not in my dream!! And that is all it is....a dream.
  
  
  In closing, stay positive, the odds are with you!! 8 leads, 2 sales. Half don't buy a pool at all and half of the ones that do, buy it from you. If you can do better than that my hat's off to you.
• 

  Ben Tipton April 28, 2009 at 1:55pm

  I'd like to know how you can allow them access to the plan and then take it away but would love to know if you would share that with me.
  I think that is a great idea.
• 

  Paul Baker April 28, 2009 at 1:48pm

  When designing, I will measure out the house, take photos of the yard and home with my phone, measure out the property and locate all utilities. I will then go back to the studio (which is my desk at my day job) and in my free time create a design. Here's where it gets tricky. I NO LONGER email or give paperback designs to customers. I let them see the design for 7 days and then take it down........did you catch that? Do you know how to, for free, allow a customer to see their design for a few days and then "poof" it's gone? Let me know if you don't, I'd be happy to share this with you all.
• 

  Paul Baker April 28, 2009 at 1:37pm

  I'd like to reply to a lot of different thoughts here:
  1. I use pool studio. It doesn't matter what you use, it's how you are using it. Is the customer having a good sales experience? That's what you need to worry about. Customer's don't buy 3D or 2D designs, THEY BUY YOU!
  
  2. Let's get together on this Legal Document issue. I can't tell you how many different legal jargon I've seen over the years by pool builders. I'm sure Arizona / California have some pretty solid documents someone can share.
  
  3. I don't go to the backyard right off. Like Michelle, I develop a relationship first before even going over to the house (I'm pre-qualifying them). Once at the home, I have the family sit down at the table or in the living room and we simply enjoy discussing about where/how the idea came about. Mind you, I've already discussed their budget before even coming over. Once we have an understanding on the project, I ask the permission (trial closing), "Do you want to walk with me into the backyard?"......of course the answer is "yes" I get the customer involved, holding my tape measure, marking out areas, climbing in and out old pools to be remodeled. Are your customers enjoying your sales presentation?
  4. I would like to also begin to discuss $charging$ for design work. I can't tell you how many jobs I've lost after putting in hours in design work and creating beautiful proposals only for the customer to run down the road to the builder who'll build their pool for beer or drug money and save them $1000! Have any of you begun to charge? I'd like to offer design and construction plan creation services at $250/site visit consultation and $1500+ for construction plans. Should they choose to go with us as their builder, the money spent on design work will be put toward their project downpayment.
  
  I guess it depends on the area, right?
  
  Have any of you done this? If not, why? If so, how is it working for you? Basically, I'm trying to stop the "whoring" out of pool companies. As you can tell, its a touchy subject.
• 

  Brian McGarry, CBP April 2, 2009 at 3:52am

  Okay, so I have one vote for Pool Studio and one for Pool Draw. I was given a demo of Pool Studio and find the tutorials very good, and I have gone online to one of Pool Draw's training sessions and was impressed with it. I have read the published pros & cons relative to purchase (Pool Draw), or leased (Pool Studio) but am not entirely convinced one package is right for my business. Any thoughts on these two or is there another package I should be looking at?