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ASME Pool Drain Sump Standard A112.19.8-2007 2.3.4

Posted by John Gable on October 29, 2009 at 9:14pm in Safety, Standards, and Codes
I apologize if you are seeing this twice. I posted this on AI Connect also. But I think we ALL need to pressure ASME to revise the A112.19.8-2007.Generally, new or revised standards only apply to new work and cannot be applied to existing facilities that met the standards in place at the time it was constructed.This is true of the International Building Code, National Electric Code, and NSF Standard 50 changes or updates. This is commonly called a grandfather clause and is typically stipulated in the new standard.The ASME A112.19.8-2007 has no such stipulation. The Professional Engineer’s (P.E.) I have spoken to believe all pools must comply with A112.19.8-2007.This may cause 10,000 of the nation’s commercial pools to close if they are required to meet A112.19.8-2007 2.3.4 Submerged Suction Outlets, due to the cost to meet 2.3.4.The industry standard for sump design the last 30 years (?) was that the suction pipe must be 1.0 pipe diameters below the grating, now the ASME wants all pools to have the pipe 1.5 diameters below the grate. How can the ASME initiate retroactive standards? Why are pools that were built in 2006, 1986 or 1906 required to comply with a sump design from 2007?The ASME allowed grate manufacturers to designate the pipe distance below the grate. I have an analogy for this: the IRS announces you can “design” your own taxes, but a CPA must certify it.I adde

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  • Scott Heusser October 30, 2009 at 8:01am
    John,

    Times are a changing. The Virginia Graeme Baker Act through the CPSC, is requiring drain fittings to upgraded, including existing pools, spas, wading pools, lazy rivers, etc. If the fitting specifies a certain dimension for the sump, than that must be improved as well. This is due to the fitting being certified for use on a given dimension of a sump making the grate, frame and sump an assembly. This is the reason PE's are telling you that all pools need to comply with the latest ANSI/ASME a112.19.8 standard. Of course you likely know all this.

    In that regard, a PE could sign off on a sump that falls outside the 1-1/2 pipe diameter rule, but they alone would bear the liability in doing so. I don't know many people, PE or otherwise, that would want to put their stamp of approval on a sub-standard installation when it comes with a maximum of a $15m fine.

    Once again I distill this to its essence. a few very poor decisions by couple of builders, service and maintenance personnel in this industry have made it quite difficult on the rest of us. We as an industry didn't insist that the industry live up to standards BEFORE these tragedies occurred. Now, we have an outside party that we allowed to have influence over us due to our inaction. This party is quite ignorant in the ways of the pool industry, and getting them to listen now is EXTREMELY difficult, because everything we say is viewed as self serving.

    As for pools closing, it has been happening and will likely happen again.

    Off my soapbox and off to work I go.
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