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  Jerry Rademan January 17, 2009 at 10:56am

  Wendy,
  
  Thanks for your reply. I think that most stain removers and sequestering agents work well on certain stains. The key as you mention is to get the metals out of the water after they are removed from the pool surface. Although filter aids added to system filtration systems can help, we have recently introduced a new 1 micron filter that can remove most, if not ALL the water suspended metals. The water needs to be recirculated from the pool by use of a sump pump,then place the hose to the PURESTART ONE MICRON FILTER and place that filter back into the pool. It works remarkably well. By the way, we have found ascorbic acid to be better than citric acid in removing most stains. We have a product called METALTRAP STAIN REMOVER which is 100% ascorbic acid.
  
  Jerry Rademan
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  Wendy Purser January 17, 2009 at 10:38am

  Jack's products work great and also Natural Chemistry Stain Out (citric acid). Follow up with a sequesterer and I like to use a filter aid such as Jack's Purifiber. Works every time. But be sure to find out where the stain is coming from so it doesn't keep reoccurring.
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  David Bauer January 16, 2009 at 2:42pm

  Jerry, the phosphate issue is there, but it is only really appearent when you use a sequestriant as a maintenence. One time use to remove an existing stain shouldn't build up the phosphates as much.
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  Jerry Rademan December 20, 2008 at 10:56am

  Tom,
  
  Although the Jack's Magic products seem to be effective, the questions of Phosphate addition and higher water pH effectiveness comes into play. What has been your experience with these?
  
  Thanks,
  
  Jerry Rademan
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  Tom Owen December 10, 2008 at 7:00pm

  What if a product like jacks magic is used?
  there products seem to do a fantastic job with lifting and sequesting the minerals.
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  Eric Watters December 2, 2008 at 6:13am

  Jerry,
  There is a flood of products in the market place currently.
  Having personally used almost all of the products, I have found that using a sequestering agent that is not Phosphonic acid based is best. This product was developed for use in water treatment and works great, but is light sensitive. Therefore breaks down faster when u.v. ( sunlight ) in involved. One line of products that I have personally used and find very effective, is GLB Sequa-Sol and or Super Sequa-Sol. When trying to remove and sequester the stain, GLB Stain Magnet is not acid based (either oxcalic or citric are) and is a reducing agent that can be used without having to go through the extensive steps of other treatments and will not effect the PH due to the product. David is correct in the oxidation process via a non chlorine oxidizer, and then treatment and sequestering of the water.
  The trick here is to use the sequestering agent on a regular basis to avoid these issues again. The general public typically do not have perfect water chemistry, unless they have their water tested regularly by a retail specialist. They obviously cause these problems due to general lack of knowledge of water chemistry. I have a neighbor that only uses trichlor tabs, I recently tested his water and had a cyanauric level over 100 ppm, and he had a recurring algae issue (go figure).
  I hope that this proves usefull for you!
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    Jerry Rademan > Eric Watters December 2, 2008 at 6:46am

    Eric,
    
    Thank you for your reply. I agree that all of the phosphonic acid-based sequestering agents are photo-sentitive and breakdown to form phosphates. They also become inactive when the water pH reaches 8.0 and higher (most salt water pools have higher pH's due to the NaOH produced). Are the Sequa-Sol products based on EDTA? I have found these types to be the most effective so far, but still, will even DE filters remove sequestered iron or copper and prevent subsequent staining?
    Also, I have found that most stain removing chemicals will kill all chlorine and subsequently cause a high chlorine demand after use. What would you recommend for effectively removing metal stains without hurting short-term chlorine absorption?
    
    Jerry Rademan
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  Markus Brunner December 2, 2008 at 5:23am

  Have you tried "Jacks Majic" visit this website, its worked well for us.
  http://www.jacksmagic.com/
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  David Bauer November 26, 2008 at 8:33am

  Citric acid will lift iron stains. Oxalic (sp?) acid lifts copper stains. Removing them from the water once they are lifted from the surfaces is the job of a sequestering agent. Take your pick there. Some oxidized copper stains (tend to be brown) will need to be oxidized (non chlorine) prior to using oxalic acid.
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    Jerry Rademan > David Bauer November 26, 2008 at 9:16am

    Thank you David.
    
    I know that getting the metals out before they have a chance to stain is best, but if they are already there or get in, problems can exist. Have you found citric acid to be better than ascorbic acid for lifting iron stains? Also, my understanding is that oxallic acid has a skull and cross bones on the package label. Although many sequestering agents seem to have flooded the market, do any of them actually get removed metals out of the water after using stain removers? The theory is that they "sequester" metal ions and cause them to be filtered out by the DE, cartridge or sand filters. I hear, however, that often times, stains seem to re-appear, even when DE filters are in use. I am just trying to better understand what is best so we can make recommendations to customers. Our company has actually developed and market a metal removing pre-filter that can be attached to the hose during fills and top-offs. It is called MetalTrap. Now we need to test and recommend chemicals to get metals out of the water if they find there way in. If interested, you can learn more about our water pre-filter at www.metaltrap.com
    
    Again thanks for your suggestions. We will try them.