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Salt Water Pools

Posted by Best Service Pools on April 16, 2009 at 2:23pm
A few people were wondering about salt water pools, so here is my opinion on them. I have had a salt water pool going on 7 years now and I absolutely love it. It does have its pros and cons and I will go over a few of those that apply to my pool.I have a gunite pool with pebbletech finish. Its about 16k gallons including spa. This is a typical pool size and build for Texas. The average is between 15k to 25k gallons with either colored plaster, pebbletech, or quartz finish.I was sold on my salt pool in that it would be less maintenance and upkeep. Having a busy schedule, this was a big plus. I was also told that I wouldn't have to deal with the chlorine smell and irritation of a typical swimming pool. I do understand that if a pool is properly balanced chemical wise, I wouldn't have this problem, but I didn't ever want to have to deal with it.My pool pretty much takes care of itself other than the normal cleaning and water testing I do weekly. I spend about maybe 10 minutes a week checking my pool. I don't have any trees or other intruding landscaping that cause my pool to be a maintenance hassle. Now on to the pro's and con's.Pro's:1. Pool takes care of itself. I don't have to store chlorine tabs or deal with the skin irritation or smell that can come with the typical chlorine pool. Less maintenance/work for me.2. The salt in the pool acts as a water softener. The salt is used to "regenerate" an ion transfer resin. The ion exchange created by the resin exchanges calcium for sodium, thus "softening" the water.3. Although the system is an added cost in the beginning, in the long term it has saved me money on chemicals.Con's:1.The ph of a salt pool runs higher so checking and adding myratic acid is critical. Not keeping the ph in balance will cause a calcium line buildup on the tile. This also causes buildup inside of the salt cell that will need to be cleaned every 3 months or so.2. Keeping the stabilizer (cyanuric acid) in balance. In a traditional chlorine tab pool, the stabilizer is part of the chlorine tab.3. The equipment is costly, but I believe it pays for itself if properly maintained.All of these things have applied to my pool and of those of my customers. Everyone has their opinions about salt water pools. Some people love them, some people hate them. It all comes down to personal preference. They do take some time to learn how to properly balance the water. They are not as forgiving as the typical chlorine tab pool. Every pool has its own personality and I recommend salt systems to people who ask me about them.If you have any questions, concerns, or what equipment I am using, I will be happy to answer them. Please feel free to message me here or email me at service@bestservicepools.comLance***Rex, I elaborated more and used your explanation of the water softening from your comments. Thank you.

my pool 002.JPG

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Replies

  • Richard A. Falk November 29, 2009 at 11:52pm
    Rick Larson said:
    I have to wonder how a millisecond passing through a cell can be called a shock treatment. Any feeder putting chlorine into a minor stream of water could be construed as a shock I guess looking at it that way.
    The main difference between adding chlorine either manually or via peristaltic pump or similar system vs. having it produced in a saltwater chlorine generator (SWG) cell is that the former is usually a hypochorite source of chlorine (chlorinating liquid, bleach, Cal-Hypo, lithium hypochlorite) which is high in pH while the latter SWG system is very low pH at the chlorine generating plate. This means that the active chlorine (hypochlorous acid) level is much higher in the SWG system, at least until it mixes with the high pH generated at the other plate. So a portion of the water flowing through the SWG cell is indeed exposed to very high active chlorine levels -- roughly around 80 ppm or so in the area between the plates. Obviously, the entire water flow area through the cell isn't 80 ppm or you'd have the FC way too high coming out of the returns (i.e. a lot of the water bypasses the core cell).

    As for whether this shock effect in the SWG cell is large or fast enough to be of practical significance, that is up for debate. It's probably somewhat better, but not the same as high-level direct oxidation such as with sufficient levels of ozone (but then that doesn't provide a residual sanitizer by itself).
  • Bruce Hudson July 17, 2009 at 6:27am
    Wait! I gotta breathe deep....To paraphrase, it's not the salt it's the stone. Unfortunately, current market demands we use a lot of natural stone around pools. It's fundamentally a poor choice to grind soft stone smoothe and lay it horizontally, especially in an environment were mineral rich water will be splashed on it repeatedly. This will only accelerate what nature will do on her own. Simple splash-out of non-salt pool will deteriorate these surfaces. Salt makes it a thousand times worse. But what are you going to do?

    Oh, and has a pool tech ever spilled acid on the coping? Oh man I'm getting dizzy now... gotta go.
  • Steven Riley June 5, 2009 at 5:38pm
    Greg,

    I'm the "pool detective" in that video, Steve Riley. I understand what you're saying about the news only reporting the bad news. But you need to put that snippet of video into perspective. It was at a time when those of us in the service and repair side of our industry were only seeing the bad news. Salt systems had only been in vogue a few seasons by then. It was at the time when all the sales reps were still saying, "What salt damage?" It was at the time when Pool & Spa News was running back to back articles on Salt System problems:

    http://www.chemilizer.com/pdfs/info/saltchlorinators.pdf

    http://www.chemilizer.com/pdfs/articles/salt_chl_gen_DEBATE.pdf

    But there were no answers coming from the manufacturers beyond a statement that they were "studying" the problem. It literally was All Bad News.

    Things have changed a lot since then. Both of the major diving board, ladder and rail mfgs have salt resistant product lines. Everyone but Jandy now offers a cupro nickel heat exchanger upgrade for their heaters. It is now routine to seal limestone and sandstone where you have a salt pool - something almost never done before. Ask Polaris how many changes they've made to metal parts for their cleaners since salt systems came into widespread use.

    And the biggest change of all has been with warranties. They're all one year now. Doesn't anyone remember 10 year pro-rated filter tank warranties? How about 3 to 5 year heat exchanger warranties? Now the only thing in our business with a warranty longer than a year is the salt cell.

    Greg said:
    Nice pool. See youtube link. . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC9ITqu0V9o The problems shown the cons of a salt system. As usual the news only reports the bad news.

    Gregory
  • Eric Watters June 3, 2009 at 5:51am
    Rick,
    Try using no fumes acid (sulfuric) it tends to not affect the TA as much as muriatic does.


    Rick Hughes said:
    We have a salt water pool, and I love it. We have very few problems with it, but I have one issue that is confusing to me. We add small amounts of Muriatic acid frequently to keep the PH down, and this works out well. However, my total akalinity tends to drop, and I have to add bicarbonate of soda to increase the TA. This seems backward to me. Shouldn't the TA tend to rise rather than fall?
  • Bryan Goh June 2, 2009 at 4:26am
    I would like to dispute this comment:
    "Con's
    Routine cell maintenance is a must despite "self cleaning" technology. Especially in areas of high calcium hardness out of the tap."

    With better chlorinator designs I believe there are salt cells in the market that don't require any maintenance. My pool's chlorinator has been installed for 2 years and so far it has not required any maintenance to remove any calcium deposits.

    Scott Heusser said:
    I've worked on well over a hundred salt pools in recent years. To add to Lance's list, here are some pros, cons and mis-information I've figured out in that time.
    Pro's
    The water feels softer to the bather due to the salinity.

    You don't have to handle tablets and you "shock" the pool less often.

    It is a "greener" product as you are not producing or shipping chlorine tablets.

    Forgetting to add tablets does not result in a green pool while you are on vacation.

    The process is almost pH neutral so you will be adding less balancing chemicals.

    You wont have to "shock" the pool as often due to the high chlorine levels generated in the cell.


    Con's
    Routine cell maintenance is a must despite "self cleaning" technology. Especially in areas of high calcium hardness out of the tap.

    Cells are expensive to replace.

    Salt is bulky to store on site.

    Regular deck rinsing is advised due to salt buildup, especially indoors.

    White Marcite tends to gray slightly over time.

    Electolysis related issues are exacerbated due to high electrolyte levels. I've seen this a lot on autocovers.
    Certain types of filters & heat exchangers (stainless steel especially) corrode due to the high salinity. Check with manufacturers before using heat exchangers or S.S. tanks. Make sure they are listed for use in salinity >5000 ppm.

    CYA levels must be watched closely.

    Dumping highly salinated water into the gutter can be a problem with some local sewer districts and the clean water act.

    Chemical automation systems (ORP) have some difficulties with saline generated pools. The extra electrical currents added to the pool can give you some odd readings.



    Mis-Information.
    "It isn't a chlorine pool". I can't tell you how many times I've heard that from customers who had another builder/service company install the device.

    "I don't have to add anything other than salt." Sorry, less chemicals to add yes, just add salt, no.

    "I never have to shock my pool again, the salt system does that for me." Sorry, your saline generator was not designed to handle the 50 kid birthday swim party you had on Saturday.


    Saline offers a great alternative to tablets given a small amount of care. In many cases they can be easier than a tablet program, especially for people that travel a lot and don't have reliable neighbors. But, they do have a downside, as all types of sanitizers have. I recommend them to clients that have a use for a saline generation system, but we don't offer it as a standard.

    Thanks for the thread Lance! Good topic to discuss and beautiful pool!
  • Scott Heusser May 13, 2009 at 2:55pm
    Hi Rick.

    By adding acid to correct the pH you are also decreasing the Total Alkalinity at the same time. This is why you'll need to add bicarb, to bring the Total Alkalinity back up.

    Rick Hughes said:
    We have a salt water pool, and I love it. We have very few problems with it, but I have one issue that is confusing to me. We add small amounts of Muriatic acid frequently to keep the PH down, and this works out well. However, my total akalinity tends to drop, and I have to add bicarbonate of soda to increase the TA. This seems backward to me. Shouldn't the TA tend to rise rather than fall?
  • Rick Hughes May 13, 2009 at 1:00pm
    We have a salt water pool, and I love it. We have very few problems with it, but I have one issue that is confusing to me. We add small amounts of Muriatic acid frequently to keep the PH down, and this works out well. However, my total akalinity tends to drop, and I have to add bicarbonate of soda to increase the TA. This seems backward to me. Shouldn't the TA tend to rise rather than fall?
  • Jeremy Hine April 22, 2009 at 7:06pm
    Yea, I've wondered what to do with failed cells. Any thoughts on how to extract anything valuable or recyclable from them?

    -Jeremy
    Florida Leisure Pool & Spa


    And one day somebody should analyze the effects of producing all the parts and pieces required for SWG chlorine production and what happens with spent cells. It might be interesting to see how green that side looks.
  • Rick Larson April 20, 2009 at 8:48am
    I quite often look at posts on the fine attributes of shocking with a SWG. I have to wonder how a millisecond passing through a cell can be called a shock treatment. Any feeder putting chlorine into a minor stream of water could be construed as a shock I guess looking at it that way. Also have to wonder why a SWG is quite often compared to a 50 dollar puck feeder or sometime even the act of putting a puck in a skimmer.

    The frequency of shocking I also thought was more a function of organic loading which has nothing to do with what type of chlorine is used. Or maybe Chloramine build up which again really has nothing to do with what type of chlorine is used.

    And one day somebody should analyze the effects of producing all the parts and pieces required for SWG chlorine production and what happens with spent cells. It might be interesting to see how green that side looks.
  • Jayme Gruen April 19, 2009 at 5:51am
    Lance, you said,
    "2. The salt in the pool acts as a water softener. The salt is used to "regenerate" an ion transfer resin. The ion exchange created by the resin exchanges calcium for sodium, thus "softening" the water."

    Can you please comment from your experiences whether or not it's easy to maintain 200-250 ppm of calcium hardness in these pools? The whole idea of water softening is to reduce the calcium level to below 5 grains = 85 ppm.
    Jayme
This reply was deleted.

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