Hello,This is a kickoff post for the VGB Forum. This will be a place to exchange questions and answers based on what we know today.To begin, here are some links to the original documents.At the heart of VGB, the first line of defense when using submerged suction, is the ASME drain cover standard. This is a copyrighted document, but if you are a manufacturer, or public pool designer using larger, field fabricated outlets, you need to purchase this standard. ASME/ANSI A112.19.8 -2007Next is the VGB Act itself. This is a link to the pdf version you can download and keep on your computer.VGB required the US Consumer Product Safety Commission to publish Rules and here are the mandatory rules regulating all suction outlet fittings (drain covers) and all public pools and spas. The CPSC published the VGB Staff Interpretation on June 19, 2008.The CPSC also produced a color poster to help the pool and spa industry comply with VGB. This is a pdf you can keep on your computer. The CPSC encourages us to print and distribute this document.Steve--

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  • This thread sure died.

    Did anyone else offer their input to the CPSC regarding unblockable drains?
  • Wendy my thoughts on portable spas too.....not picking on them, just saying so.

    Wendy Purser said:
    Why do the Intex pools sold through Walmart etc. not have to conform to VGB? Do they have compliant covers on the suction inlets? Would this not be against the law to sell them now? My local code official said the new codes make it+!@#$ the inspectors and everyone should just buy a Kmart pool. But I thought these pools also were supposed to conform to the building codes for fences and all other things. I think I will talk to him next chance I get.
  • Why do the Intex pools sold through Walmart etc. not have to conform to VGB? Do they have compliant covers on the suction inlets? Would this not be against the law to sell them now? My local code official said the new codes make it hard on the inspectors and everyone should just buy a Kmart pool. But I thought these pools also were supposed to conform to the building codes for fences and all other things. I think I will talk to him next chance I get.
  • For new pools, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Connecticut currently are ones I know off the top of my head. Check out http://www.apsp.org/53/index.aspx for more information.

    Steve--

    Joe said:
    What states have residential mandates on SVRs'?
  • What states have residential mandates on SVRs'?
  • The situation you have described is typical of pool constuction for over 50 years. This type of suction outlet piping is known as a slip sump or bulkhead sump. It is used in aquariums as well as pools and spas and therapy pools for decades and is, or was quite popular even after the white goods manufactureres began to develope pre-manufactured sumps. The slip /bulkhead sumps are not compliant in most cases with the ASME/ANSI STD A112.19.8 2007 and the 8a-2008 addenda to this standard. I know of only one approved suction outlet fitting that allows for this type of sump and that is the SDX from paramount. The size cover you will need exceeds the size limits of the SDX. There is th MDX which is also produced by paramount whcih is much larger. I suggest you contact paramount and check if they have a product that can be used in this configuration. I have one guestion though. You said the drains are connected. Are they in series or parallel. In series suction outlets are now unacceptable in as far as proper plumbing technique.

    ALLEN HUNZEKER said:
    Brian Miller said:
    Question for all of you on sumps. I dove a high school swimming pool today to check on the sump. This pool is approx. 40 years old has two main drains (tied together) about 20 ft apart along with a gutter system. The existing main drain covers are cast iron, the pipe (10") was cut off flush with the floor and the covers simply sat atop the pipe. No sump box or anything. The pipe ran straight down for about 18" before reaching an elbow. In this case does the pipe serve as the sump? Can I install new covers and be compliant?
  • ALLEN HUNZEKER said:
    Brian Miller said:
    Question for all of you on sumps. I dove a high school swimming pool today to check on the sump. This pool is approx. 40 years old has two main drains (tied together) about 20 ft apart along with a gutter system. The existing main drain covers are cast iron, the pipe (10") was cut off flush with the floor and the covers simply sat atop the pipe. No sump box or anything. The pipe ran straight down for about 18" before reaching an elbow. In this case does the pipe serve as the sump? Can I install new covers and be compliant?
  • Thanks Steve. Great info. I'll pass it on.

    Wes
  • Wes and Scott,

    Who owns the spas? If they are owned by individuals that makes a difference. Below you will find Q&A from the CPSC on this subject. Regardless, it is always good to educate and update pools and spas whenever possible. It is good for your customers, their quests and it is good business. Suction outlet fitting covers (drain covers) compliant with ASME A112.19.8 - 2007 that have a flow rating equal to or greater than the maximum flow of the system will address all five suction entrapment hazards.

    Q: Are single family rental property pools considered to be public under the Act?
    A: No, these pools are not considered public under section 1404(c)(2) of the Act and therefore
    are not required to comply with the cover replacement or secondary anti-entrapment system
    requirements.
    (Jan. 30, 2009)


    Regards,

    Steve Barnes
  • Thanks Scott for the insight. You are correct in that each unit has its own spa. I didn't make that very clear.

    It does make sense to get compliant the ones which are rental, especially with the lack of training/understanding the renters may have on the operation and use of a spa.

    It seems like it would be a lot of money, which the association would charge to each unit, I assume. However, I am curious as to my liability if I don't recommend each unit have one. I would feel more protected if I said each one needed it, but they can choose to only do the rentals.

    What's your take?
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