What is Not Taught in CPO Training

I have started a thread called Certified Pool Operator (CPO) Training - What is Not Taught on a residential pool forum, Trouble Free Pool (TFP). As noted, the CPO course is excellent, but there are some things that are not taught and a few things that are incorrect or incomplete. My focus is on pool water chemistry so my comments are focused in that area.

Please note that the TFP forum, with over 10,000 members, was an outgrowth of another forum called The PoolForum with over 20,000 members and have a lot of people who were frustrated by advice given to them by some in the pool industry (mostly pool stores). So the forum focuses on a simple approach to water maintenance minimizing the use of additional chemicals. It is not the lowest-maintenance approach since it requires regular addition of chlorine (usually bleach or chlorinating liquid) and not by Trichlor tabs. Nevertheless, it has been very effective.

My purpose in creating this discussion is both for education and for feedback from real-world experience -- something that is invaluable in making sure the science matches reality. So please comment from the point of view of your experience or, if technically oriented, your technical expertise (say, in chemistry). I would like to write to NSPF to improve the CPO course, but would like to sanity-check the suggestions before doing so.

Replies

Don Parish January 9, 2011 at 6:54am

like
Kevin Woodhurst January 9, 2011 at 6:41am

Thanks Richard... We need more stuff like this from individuals dedicated specifically to an area of expertise. There is a lot to learn in this industry and it is next to impossible for one person to know it all. Looking forward to reading more...

Many great post's here...

Cheers to you!
Scott Tarr January 9, 2011 at 6:23am

What is not taught in CPO training? Common sense!! I had a CPO call me as he stood by an MA-35 chlorinator and ask if he was to fill it half way or the whole way full of cal hypo. I told him all the way and needless to say he is no longer with us. Obviously, the last part is tongue in cheek!! I couldn't believe I had a CPO asking me about this. I responded with a resounding NEITHER, the chlorinator is for trichlor!!

Another one I get frequently is the where a service "professional" and I use the term loosely, calls with issues with his water. He tells me his pH is moving all over the place and that he has a chlorine residual but then when asked cannot give me any info on total alkalinity. Weren't all CPOs taught that TA is the measure of the ability of water to resist changes in pH?

Finally, a recent CPO grad called with an issue with a broken chlorinator. He had stated that he had put the trichlor sticks in the basket and would continue for a few weeks until he had time to replace the chlorinator. I mentioned that he needed to replace the chlorinator sooner than a few weeks if possible and get the trichlor out of the simmer basket as the acidity of trichlor will ruin the basket and got this answer. "The skimmer? I didn't put the sticks in the skimmer basket, I put them in the pump basket, buddy!!" What?????
Lester Eric Brehm November 16, 2010 at 11:38am

Richard, If you ever write a book on water chemistry, I want to be first in line to buy it.
Richard A. Falk April 7, 2010 at 8:59pm

I was told that some people are unable to read the ".docx" Microsoft Word file I posted, probably because they are using an earlier version of Word. So I have created a PDF file from it and posted it here. Hopefully, that will be readable by anyone using Acrobat Reader.
Richard A. Falk March 31, 2010 at 12:44am

Well, I finally finished writing up the document on NSPF CPO Suggestions that you may find here. Though the Word document is 35 pages long, it is mostly commentary (that would not be included in the Handbook) and selected paragraphs from the Handbook where there are some deletions, changes or additions. The total of new content is probably no more than 2-4 pages equivalent in the Handbook. I also added a short section on exercises or experiments that can be done in the CPO course to illustrate a couple of the principles.

As I have mentioned before in this discussion, I am not a good writer so please just take these suggestions as starting points and create more suitable modifications as you see fit. I am also sending this document separately to Tom for his convenience.
Richard A. Falk March 13, 2010 at 10:24am

A video of what happens when you mix Trichlor with Cal-Hypo is shown here. A video of the differing fire potential of Cal-Hypo at different strengths is shown here.

I'm planning to spend part of today transferring my sticky notes in the CPO handbook into a Word document that I'll link to here and also send to NSPF. Sorry it's taken so long.

Pool Chemical Explosion Accident Analysis and Investigation at chemaxx.com

Swimming Pool Chemical Explosion Analysis and Accident investigation at CHEMAXX.com.
Sherri Trometter February 23, 2010 at 9:36am

I agree! Just showing working equipment and illustrations of well maintained equipment, the old saying comes to mind, "what are the chances of that happening to me!". It always seems that Murphy is always waiting for the unsuspecting person. There are plenty of photos of incidents like this, I'm sure. Feel free to use this photo as needed. I'm definitely using it for all my training course for Pesticide Certification and Pesticide Recertification Courses starting this April!

I only have the 2007 CPO book. I had to beg for that one, PA budget in a shambles, no $$$ for training, no $$$ for purchases (other than testing kit reagents for inspections), no money for out-of-state travel and barely enough for in state travel of inspections. So if anyone knows how to bring the pools/spas/beaches to me, I'm all ears!

Since there is no $$$ for training, I'm always looking for CPO Courses to attend within my district, at no cost, but I would be able to add a portion of the program for input on PA regulations and recommendations, inspection procedures, VGBA from the PA states view, incidents like the 'exploding chlorinator' and other avoidable incidents. Bringing realism to the classroom and not just text book theories (which are a good base for learning). I've attended courses in the past, but since I didn't pay for the course, they didn't issue certificates for me. Any information on who to contact for me to attend any CPO courses, at no cost, in the Northcentral region of PA, please forward to me! I'd be very thankful! I really don't need a certificate, but the information would be wonderful to share when I do inspections!

Richard A. Falk said:
Sherri,

On p. 104 of the 2009 CPO Handbook there is a large blue box that says "Caution: Never add chemicals to an erosion feeder other than those specified by the feeder manufacturer. An explosion or fire could result." On p. 52 under the description of Cal-Hypo it states that Cal-Hypo "... is incompatible with organic compounds, and great care should be taken when storing and handling this disinfectant" plus it talks about it being a more combustible oxidizer. Though it is great that some instructors talk about or show an example of an explosion that results from having Cal-Hypo and Trichlor in the same chemical feeder (even alternating; not just mixing together), wouldn't it be a good idea to add this as an explicit example to the 2009 CPO Handbook both in words and showing a photo such as the one you linked to?
Richard A. Falk February 23, 2010 at 9:16am

Sherri,

On p. 104 of the 2009 CPO Handbook there is a large blue box that says "Caution: Never add chemicals to an erosion feeder other than those specified by the feeder manufacturer. An explosion or fire could result." On p. 52 under the description of Cal-Hypo it states that Cal-Hypo "... is incompatible with organic compounds, and great care should be taken when storing and handling this disinfectant" plus it talks about it being a more combustible oxidizer. Though it is great that some instructors talk about or show an example of an explosion that results from having Cal-Hypo and Trichlor in the same chemical feeder (even alternating; not just mixing together), wouldn't it be a good idea to add this as an explicit example to the 2009 CPO Handbook both in words and showing a photo such as the one you linked to?
Scott Heusser February 23, 2010 at 8:31am

I have an erosion feeder in my classroom that is a melted blob of plastic now from the trichlor-cal hypo mix. I used to have a HCC30 that sent the pool operator to the burn ward in Salt Lake but I was never able to get rid of the chlorine odor so I never took that into the classroom. Pretty dramatic display and it reinforces chemical safety very effectively.

Sherri Trometter said:
I hope this image loads. This is what I deal with when CPO training is not taken by persons who think they know everything there is about pools. This explosion could have been prevented! The person who mixed tri-chlor and calcium hypo in this canister told me that 'all chlorine is the same and what happened wasn't their fault. It's the cheap equipment that I have to fix all the time."

Even if there is some information missing from CPO courses, well, I think what the course contains, this person would learn that not all chlorines are the same and can be mixed together! Here in PA, you need to have a pesticide certification in Category 24 from the Dept. of Agriculture to add any disinfectants to pools(unless it's your own personal pool), this person didn't even have that training either.